Curse

The Josip · Jul 05, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Everyone who tried both knows that physicals can deal insane amount of damage compared to others, with insane protection (SY..).

This game always had very imbalanced builds/skills which existed on purpose because of ANets policy of "shifting overpowered metagame".

I think it's time for a change. Obviously, since next updates will deal with Paragons and Dervishes there's not much hope, but you never know.

I've been playing lately with Me/D (!) because even as melee mesmer I kill faster than as caster mesmer, even after the mesmer buff update. I mean, come on, something is wrong here. My (buffed) melee mesmer can kill monsters in HM in two hits. Two hits. Let me do that with a spell!

Sam6555 · Jul 05, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

IMO melee should hurt more....casters have the ability of not having to move round much, whereas what happens if you are melee and the enemy kites you? Your damage hits 0 esp in HM areas.

ruk1a · Jul 05, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

play melee then

IrishX · Jul 05, 2010, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Physicals always have been the damage dealers in Guild Wars. Casters have always been support-based, combining defense, disruption, and some supporting damage.

Gill Halendt · Jul 05, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Let me do that with a spell!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Pain

Cuilan · Jul 05, 2010, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Assassins weren't meant to fearlessly run around and blast everything in sight.

Now they have little use for shadow stepping except for a couple speed clears and zone/area manipulation like Slavers once had.

The Josip · Jul 05, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Ok I am not going to argue obvious points here, if someone thinks that this is as it should be then ok.. the thread is here, nothing more to add after I typed this below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Physicals always have been the damage dealers in Guild Wars. Casters have always been support-based, combining defense, disruption, and some supporting damage.

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies, as well as minion masters. You play as a warrior. I really can't see how your warrior competed during that time, in damage and protection. Moreover my smiting monk in Prophecies was probably dealing more damage as well plus heals (not sure since it was long ago, and it was before nerfs and before aoe dispersal).

Warriors were damage dealers in PvP, but general PvE they were always more tanks than anything else. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, I accept refutal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sam6555

IMO melee should hurt more....casters have the ability of not having to move round much, whereas what happens if you are melee and the enemy kites you? Your damage hits 0 esp in HM areas.

Please. And what happens when caster is interrupted or out of energy? Oh yea you can't do anything. What happens when enemies run out of caster AoE?

We can do this all day long, but summed up: pros&cons need to equalize on both. Yes, there are more antimelee hexes and conditions than anticaster ones. But you can't balance something on mere theory. We're not living in Prophecy days where condition and hex removals were very weak. In general PvE, on average, it's very easy to either be and stay clean (most PvE areas), or to have your hero/player remove unwanted effects fast. I have zero hex removal on my heroes (maybe henchman has some, I don't know), and only MBnS as condition removal (plus whatever henchmen usually have). Situations where I would be dealing zero damage are so extreme they ain't even worth mentioning.

And if you ever played melee (a good one), you'll see that most enemies won't kite at all when you go on them, and some that want to kite will be killed before they distance from you (because you can kill them almost instantly). That leaves, as above, extreme cases of kiting which are not worth mentioning.

I am not here to debate theory.

DigitalFear · Jul 05, 2010, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Mesmers are overpowered as shit after the update. Stop whining. Run a real Mesmer bar please.

Besides, casters mostly do AoE damage. Physicals mostly do single-target damage.

Without casters physicals could never be buffed to hell.

Wait what? Casters? In physically orientated teams? DERP!

Gift3d · Jul 05, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

casters - lots of aoe, melee - mostly single target

casters - can only be stopped by interrupts and daze - melee, can be stopped by weakness cripple snares blind and by pressing your WASD keys

melee - in front lines readily recieving the majority of ambient harm and pbaoe, casters - can position themselves half an aggro bubble away with no drawbacks to their positioning

etc etc etc i really don't need to go on, this is so painfully obvious and i'm only typing it for OP's sake since he may be one of the only people in all of guild wars who does not understand it.

i think you need to take a big step back, get some medication, realize what the hell is going on in the game you are playing before ludicrously whining about it, and come back when you get a clue. this could be one of the most ridiculous "suggestions" i've ever seen on this website, and trust me that is saying a lot/

HigherMinion · Jul 05, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Thing about this, then. A warrior, assassin, dervish or whatever; autoattacking at high-speed for whatever their weapon damage is +Crits. They are always dealing damage/pressure. The caster in comparison, is wanding with pitiful damage, no crit chance and generally speaking, no IAS.

Now add the physical's attack skills to the overall damage. Then think about what the elementalist had in prophecies.

How could you possibly have thought elementalists ever dealt more damage? And physicals ARE the damage class of guild wars. eles, mesmers, necros, etc- are all Midline support.

Gill Halendt · Jul 05, 2010, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...s-t113319.html

Check the dates... Looks like little has changed in almost 5 years.

Teamwork is the key, physicals need casters' support in order to deal 5x damage.

dusanyu · Jul 05, 2010, 09:14 PM // 21:14

let put this simple Physicals do better damage (Reward) but there risk is high (there in the thick of it after all)

Casters are Safe in battle (Risk) but do less damage (Reward)

looks to me like it is balanced on a basis of risk and reward

Desert Rose · Jul 05, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies, as well as minion masters. You play as a warrior. I really can't see how your warrior competed during that time, in damage and protection. Moreover my smiting monk in Prophecies was probably dealing more damage as well plus heals (not sure since it was long ago, and it was before nerfs and before aoe dispersal).

Warriors were damage dealers in PvP, but general PvE they were always more tanks than anything else. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, I accept refutal.

During Prophecies manly fire eles were used as damage dealers and warriors were often used as tanks, you are correct on this one. But that was the cause because back then most of us were still noobs and hadn't any clue about the game and therefor played it the same way we are used to play other RPGs.

Fusylum · Jul 05, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

play melee then

Yes, owned
quit your caster bull

The Josip · Jul 05, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

let put this simple Physicals do better damage (Reward) but there risk is high (there in the thick of it after all)

Casters are Safe in battle (Risk) but do less damage (Reward)

looks to me like it is balanced on a basis of risk and reward

Please. This is no Diablo Hardcore where if you die once it's gameover.

It's all about speed of clearing the map. If physical dies 1000 times and finishes dungeon in 3 minutes, who cares if casters are safe and takes 2 hours to do the same?

Sorry, I fail to see the logic.

You speak of safety. I play a freakin mesmer in melee, what risk? I get hit LESS than my heroes and henchmen who are ALL casters. I die less than them.

I am obviously playing different game than you. In Guild Wars game I play, monsters attack targets with less armor/health, and in the game I play, casters have weak armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...s-t113319.html

I read that thread back then and some new things. Good read of course, but impossible to explain to some people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Higher Minion

How could you possibly have thought elementalists ever dealt more damage?

Really? I guess I listened to much to all the rave about this and that and believed it's true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFear

Mesmers are overpowered as shit after the update. Stop whining. Run a real Mesmer bar please.

8 skills please.

The "mesmer are overpowered now" I heard from many, and surprisingly they never give 8 overpowered skills, nor do they use mesmer themselves, nor do they play with mesmers, nor do they use memser heroes. I think theorycraft is overpowered.

Quote:

Besides, casters mostly do AoE damage. Physicals mostly do single-target damage.

What physicals do single target damage?

Quote:

Without casters physicals could never be buffed to hell.

Yea and without healers they wouldn't survive. Which completely misses the point here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

etc etc etc i really don't need to go on, this is so painfully obvious and i'm only typing it for OP's sake since he may be one of the only people in all of guild wars who does not understand it.

See my second post.

Your theorycraft fails.

Quote:

i think you need to take a big step back, get some medication, realize what the hell is going on in the game you are playing before ludicrously whining about it, and come back when you get a clue. this could be one of the most ridiculous "suggestions" i've ever seen on this website, and trust me that is saying a lot/

If I hate something more than theorycraft, it's haughty noobs. Although, I think these two are connected, because both lack a touch with reality.

vamp08 · Jul 05, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

OP prolly got facerolled by a hammspam War in RA and came here to vent.

HigherMinion · Jul 05, 2010, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Hate theory craft? Well listen to the hypocrisy. You are theorycrafting and QQing about changing stuff that doesn't need changing/balancing. gg.

DigitalFear · Jul 05, 2010, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

8 skills please.

Generic Panic bar, really.

Something like:
OQZDAZkCT0AkAyATP2gIgpiIDA
There, interrupts, shutdown, amazing e-managment and damage.

Quote:

nor do they use mesmer themselves

Don't let my 'E/mo' profession confuse you, I do use my Mesmer frequently

Quote:

nor do they play with mesmers, nor do they use memser heroes.

Ditto.

Quote:

I think theorycraft is overpowered.

I don't. I think practice is just as overpowered.

The Josip · Jul 05, 2010, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

OP prolly got facerolled by a hammspam War in RA and came here to vent.

No I always killed any kind of warriors in RA without a problem, besides, if you tried reading (it's a skill), you'd see it's all about PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Higherminion

You are theorycrafting and QQing about changing stuff that doesn't need changing/balancing. gg.

It doesn't need changing and balancing if you're MoP nuker exploiting physical damage, of course.

Which part of what I said is theorycrafting? You said it yourself physicals deal more damage and added that it was like that before too (I stood corrected).

I mean, you play EMo proter - sure, as far as you're concerned no change is needed but I'm sure some would like to actually do something with ele damage skills - balanced - instead of using blatantly overpowered Ether Renewal (which can only exist with split pvp and pve skills).

Your idea of gameplay is that physicals should do the damage and the others serve them humbly. That isn't quite how I picture that game combat should be, nor is it obvious looking at the entire skill selection each class has.

Del · Jul 05, 2010, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Hate theory crafting and haughty noobs eh?

Pot, meet kettle.